Date: Sat, 24 Sep 94 04:30:03 PDT From: Advanced Amateur Radio Networking Group Errors-To: TCP-Group-Errors@UCSD.Edu Reply-To: TCP-Group@UCSD.Edu Precedence: Bulk Subject: TCP-Group Digest V94 #211 To: tcp-group-digest TCP-Group Digest Sat, 24 Sep 94 Volume 94 : Issue 211 Today's Topics: Actually, I *like* Brian's listserv enet anomalie gateway software? (4 msgs) Hubris (3 msgs) KA9Q NOS doesn't work with a PI board Mail failure Reading and how to stop TCP-Group Digest V94 #210 Virtual machines (3 msgs) what is MAC (5 msgs) Send Replies or notes for publication to: . Subscription requests to . Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu. Archives of past issues of the TCP-Group Digest are available (by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives". We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 10:55 EDT From: nelson@crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) Subject: Actually, I *like* Brian's listserv To: ssampson@sabea-oc.af.mil, listserv@UCSD.EDU, tcp-group@UCSD.EDU delete tcp-group ssampson@sabea-oc.af.mil ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 04:18:25 -0700 From: kd5lu@kd5lu.ampr.org (kd5lu) Subject: enet anomalie To: tcp-group@ucsd.edu Scenario: Jnos box 10.g connected to windows pc via enet card. Problem : I can connect just fine to jnos from windows. Problem is, after I connect to another ax25 station (via the connect command in the mb), each character I type gets sent out over the ax25 interface. The corresponding station does not know what to do with all my single character madness. This raises a couple of questions I would appreciate some input on: 1. Upon inspecting the trace of the enet interface, I see each character I enter on the windows/pc getting transmitted over to my jnos box. Is this normal ? 2. If the preceeding question is normal operation, how is it controlled where each character will NOT be sent over the ax25 interface until I hit return ? The windows software is Trumpet Winsock with a current GVC packet driver for the enet board. Any comments and/or questions will be greatly appreciated. Tnx and 73. Bill Abernathy kd5lu.ampr.org - abernat@metronet.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Abernathy kd5lu.ampr.org [44.28.0.119] abernath@netcom.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 08:09:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Hartsfield Subject: gateway software? To: John Paul Morrison On Thu, 22 Sep 1994, John Paul Morrison wrote: > What software are people using on their gateways? I'm having terrible > luck with the stability of KA9Q, Jnos etc. Did you compile your own? > Do you have a huge patch file you keep around to apply to new versions > of NOS? I don't care what flavour you're using; if it's stable I wan't > to try what you're using. > > I need a *stable* tcp/ip router and gateway (ip over ip encap) for > ethernet to 56kbps and 1200bps packet. Just tonight I was using rcp to > copy 15 megs of a directory tree over the 56kbps link; but then I > opened an ftp connection to a Sun; when I closed the ftp connection, > the JNOS router bit the dust (right in the middle of the rcp! arg!). > Rhetorical question: why can Suns, SGIs, Linux boxes etc. run for > *months* doing routing (and a million other things), and NOS up times > are measured in days at best? Because nos is running on MS-DOS and a Sun, SGI, Lunix, etc are running real operating systems. nos tries to make dos do something it wasn't designed for (multitasking, networking, etc.) and does a good job in the attempt, but has trouble because of dos. Your unix machines were designed for doing multitasking networking and so they do it real well. Your best bet for a stable tcp/ip is to run Jnos for Linux. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 12:16:17 -0400 From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: gateway software? To: Brian Hartsfield > > > On Thu, 22 Sep 1994, John Paul Morrison wrote: > > > What software are people using on their gateways? I'm having terrible > > luck with the stability of KA9Q, Jnos etc. Did you compile your own? > > Do you have a huge patch file you keep around to apply to new versions > > of NOS? I don't care what flavour you're using; if it's stable I wan't > > to try what you're using. > > > > I need a *stable* tcp/ip router and gateway (ip over ip encap) for > > ethernet to 56kbps and 1200bps packet. Just tonight I was using rcp to > > copy 15 megs of a directory tree over the 56kbps link; but then I > > opened an ftp connection to a Sun; when I closed the ftp connection, > > the JNOS router bit the dust (right in the middle of the rcp! arg!). > > Rhetorical question: why can Suns, SGIs, Linux boxes etc. run for > > *months* doing routing (and a million other things), and NOS up times > > are measured in days at best? > > Because nos is running on MS-DOS and a Sun, SGI, Lunix, etc are running > real operating systems. nos tries to make dos do something it wasn't > designed for (multitasking, networking, etc.) and does a good job in the > attempt, but has trouble because of dos. Your unix machines were > designed for doing multitasking networking and so they do it real well. > > Your best bet for a stable tcp/ip is to run Jnos for Linux. Or you could try to run Just Plain Phil Karn NOS, and not feature-fied various which seem to be much less stable. Of course, if you don't need to do any AX.25 nonsense, then a UN*X-like OS on the PC would give you many more options. louie wa3ymh ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 14:05:23 -0400 (EDT) From: ron@chaos.eng.wayne.edu (Ron Atkinson) Subject: gateway software? To: jmorriso@bogomips.ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison) > What software are people using on their gateways? I'm having terrible > luck with the stability of KA9Q, Jnos etc. Did you compile your own? > Do you have a huge patch file you keep around to apply to new versions > of NOS? I don't care what flavour you're using; if it's stable I wan't > to try what you're using. Most people are running JNOS as a gateway, but reliability is very low when a large amount of data is passing through it, especially continuously at a high rate of speed. Pretty odd that I've noticed the same thing as you have with UDP packets. I can run telnets, ftp's, etc... through them, but many times when I run domain queries or try a talk program through a NOS system it dies. If you really want to run JNOS and get some reliability try JNOS/Linux. I've had much better luck with this than any DOS version. It too can do goofy things though. Is there a reason why you can't just run the AX.25 code in the kernel for Linux and run the IPIP daemon on that? The IPIP daemon does work just fine, I've run it on 2 machines here and a couple other folks have run it too. Do you have special hardware that no code exists for Linux yet that causes you to have to run a DOS machine? Just curious... If you do run JNOS/Linux you can set up a SLIP link via a pty to talk to the Linux machine and just route via that. Plus you can do your encap routing through that if you want to. If you need to run DOS though I'd just stick with Phil's base code. Also when running data at a high rate of speed through it turn off your trace on all your ports. Leaving a trace on will kill a NOS system pretty quickly. -- Ron N8FOW AMPRnet : n8fow@n8fow.ampr.org Internet : ron@chaos.eng.wayne.edu aa011@detroit.freenet.org #include /* all views and opinions expressed above are my own. */ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 12:01:06 -0800 (PDT) From: jmorriso@bogomips.ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison) Subject: gateway software? To: ron@chaos.eng.wayne.edu (Ron Atkinson) > > > What software are people using on their gateways? I'm having terrible > > luck with the stability of KA9Q, Jnos etc. Did you compile your own? > > Do you have a huge patch file you keep around to apply to new versions > > of NOS? I don't care what flavour you're using; if it's stable I wan't > > to try what you're using. > > Most people are running JNOS as a gateway, but reliability is very low > when a large amount of data is passing through it, especially continuously > at a high rate of speed. Pretty odd that I've noticed the same thing > as you have with UDP packets. I can run telnets, ftp's, etc... through > them, but many times when I run domain queries or try a talk program through > a NOS system it dies. Apparently there's a patch for this, but I haven't seen it. > > If you really want to run JNOS and get some reliability try JNOS/Linux. I've > had much better luck with this than any DOS version. It too can do goofy > things though. Is there a reason why you can't just run the AX.25 code in > the kernel for Linux and run the IPIP daemon on that? The IPIP daemon does > work just fine, I've run it on 2 machines here and a couple other folks have > run it too. Do you have special hardware that no code exists for Linux yet > that causes you to have to run a DOS machine? Just curious... I already run Linux on one end of the 56k link (I don't need IPIP encap on that side); and I have few problems with tcp/ip routing. I've seen problems with ax.25 sockets in Linux, but I don't care, because the system we have is all tcp/ip. Do you have IPIP running under Linux? Maybe I'll have to look at this again. I compiled IPIP for Linux with some kludges, but I'm not sure if it was done properly. Not sure about the routes with IPIP either. Ideally, IPIP would go into the kernel, but I'm having trouble bending my mind around the various network kernel levels. It *looks* easy enough to do, but I'm not sure where to start. So do you have patches for IPIP and Linux? > > If you do run JNOS/Linux you can set up a SLIP link via a pty to talk to the > Linux machine and just route via that. Plus you can do your encap routing > through that if you want to. If you need to run DOS though I'd just stick > with Phil's base code. Also when running data at a high rate of speed through > it turn off your trace on all your ports. Leaving a trace on will kill a NOS > system pretty quickly. > > -- > > Ron N8FOW > > AMPRnet : n8fow@n8fow.ampr.org > Internet : ron@chaos.eng.wayne.edu > aa011@detroit.freenet.org > thanks > #include > /* all views and opinions expressed above are my own. */ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- BogoMIPS Research Labs -- bogosity research & simulation -- VE7JPM -- jmorriso@bogomips.ee.ubc.ca ve7jpm@ve7jpm.ampr.org jmorriso@ve7ubc.ampr.org --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 06:38:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Gerald J Creager Subject: Hubris To: ssampson@sabea-oc.af.mil (Steve Sampson) Steve Sampson sez: > > > > Hubris > > Isn't that what the fags at ucsd smear their butt with? Comments like this are completely uncalled for on a public listserv response. > Well you should pat yourself on the back on the fine and wonderful > list server you "wrote". I suspect it's probably the only thing you > ever finished... Steve, if you're dissatisfied with the list, the author, or the folks who are on the list, why don't you follow your own advice and just unsubscribe? Or, would you prefer someone do it for you? Gerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 12:54:08 +0200 (BST) From: iialan@iifeak.swan.ac.uk (Alan Cox) Subject: Hubris To: ssampson@sabea-oc.af.mil (Steve Sampson) > > Hubris > Isn't that what the fags at ucsd smear their butt with? > > Well you should pat yourself on the back on the fine and wonderful > list server you "wrote". I suspect it's probably the only thing you > ever finished... I can only assume these are faking postings. Just in case I've taken the trouble to forward them to USAF with a request they are looked into Alan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 18:14:44 +0100 From: "Brian A. Lantz" Subject: Hubris To: Steve Sampson On Fri, 23 Sep 1994, Steve Sampson wrote: > > Hubris > > Isn't that what the fags at ucsd smear their butt with? > > Well you should pat yourself on the back on the fine and wonderful > list server you "wrote". I suspect it's probably the only thing you > ever finished... > > -- > Steve I have seen unacceptable and unnecessary messages on this list before. I have seen people flamed for helping and flamed for being just born. I have seen people flame others because they didn't GIVE their time and energy faster and in the way that the flamer thought it should be done. But you know, this message of sincere ingratitude only goes to show that when you think you have seen it all, you haven't! Steve, Buddy, If you don't like Brian and his tcp-group list, DON'T USE IT! It's HIS party and he'll cry if he wants to. You, as is with the rest of us, have little or no say. DON'T show your south side while facing north and lead Brian to believe that the members of this group support such uncalled-for ravings. BRIAN: May of us in the Amateur Community very much appreciate the MANY things you have FINISHED that have helped make Amateur Radio TCP what it is today. Don't let random, ill conceived flames sway you. ----------------------------------------------------------- Brian A. Lantz/KO4KS brian@lantz.cftnet.com REAL PORTION of Microsoft Windows code: while (memory_available) { eat_major_portion_of_memory (no_real_reason); if (feel_like_it) make_user_THINK (this_is_an_OS); gates_bank_balance++; } ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 20:11:25 -0700 (PDT) From: rosenaue@mprgate.mpr.ca (Dennis Rosenauer) Subject: KA9Q NOS doesn't work with a PI board To: tcp-group@UCSD.EDU I have been attempting to get the KA9Q NOS running with a PI board. I have found that JNOS and others (PA0GRI 1229M etc.) crash with high volumes of IP (UDP) traffic. It was suggested by others on this group that Phil's KA9Q NOS was better in this regard. I obtained the sources from ftp.ucsd.edu and after a little messing around with RCS (I set it all up on one of my UNIX boxes to unbundle it properly) and adding a few patches from WA7IPX it compiled and seemed to run. However, I cannot get the PI board interface to work at all. The version of NOS I got is "930622 (KA9Q)". Does anyone have any patches to make the PI board work? The ethernet interface via a packet driver works fine. I have not tried using the PI board packet driver with KA9Q recently but it did not seem to work when I tested it earlier this year. Suggestions? Thanks, Dennis. -- Dennis Rosenauer VE7BPE rosenaue@mpr.ca MPR Teltech Ltd. Wireless Transmission Products "For every vision there is an Burnaby, B. C. equal and opposite revision" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 12:15:00 edt From: Adminstrator Subject: Mail failure To: dayhub!3445a!ucsd.edu!TCP-Group@prowler.daytonoh.NCR.COM User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: GPPGDAYTON/GPPGPOST/lshannon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Return-Path: Received: from prowler.daytonoh.ncr.com by gppgpost.daytonoh.ncr.com id <2E82FF0D@gppgpost.daytonoh.ncr.com>; Fri, 23 Sep 94 12:15:09 edt Received: by prowler.daytonoh.ncr.com; 23 Sep 94 11:46:14 EDT Received: by dayhub.DaytonOH.NCR.COM; 23 Sep 94 11:46:05 EDT Received: by 3445a.DaytonOH.NCR.COM; 23 Sep 94 11:46:34 EDT id AA780335469 Fri, 23 Sep 94 11:51:09 EST Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 11:51:09 EST From: TCP-Group@ucsd.edu Message-Id: <9408237803.AA780335469@WPDSMTP.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> To: tcp-group-digest@ucsd.edu Subject: TCP-Group Digest V94 #210 Received: by ccmail from 3445a.DaytonOH.NCR.COM >From ncrhub1!ucsd.edu!owner-tcp-digest@dayhub.DaytonOH.NCR.COM X-Envelope-From: ncrhub1!ucsd.edu!owner-tcp-digest@dayhub.DaytonOH.NCR.COM Received: by 3445a.DaytonOH.NCR.COM; 23 Sep 94 11:41:55 EDT Received: by dayhub.DaytonOH.NCR.COM; 23 Sep 94 11:41:09 EDT Received: from ncrgw1 by ncrhub1.NCR.COM id ad10307; 23 Sep 94 11:39 EDT Received: by ncrgw1.NCR.COM; 23 Sep 94 11:36:29 EDT sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Fri, 23 Sep 1994 04:30:11 -0700 for tcp-digest-list Received: by ucsd.edu; id EAA26150 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Fri, 23 Sep 1994 04:30:08 -0700 for tcp-group-ddist Message-Id: <199409231130.EAA26150@ucsd.edu> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 04:30:03 PDT From: Advanced Amateur Radio Networking Group Errors-To: TCP-Group-Errors@UCSD.EDU Reply-To: TCP-Group@ucsd.edu Precedence: Bulk Subject: TCP-Group Digest V94 #210 To: tcp-group-digest@ucsd.edu TCP-Group Digest Fri, 23 Sep 94 Volume 94 : Issue 210 Today's Topics: gateway software? How to Join or Leave (2 msgs) Hubris Mail failure TCP retry time problem? wn940921 : where can I find it? Send Replies or notes for publication to: . Subscription requests to . Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu. Archives of past issues of the TCP-Group Digest are available (by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives". We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 21:56:54 -0800 (PDT) From: jmorriso@bogomips.ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison) Subject: gateway software? To: gateways@mpg.phys.hawaii.edu, tcp-group@ucsd.edu What software are people using on their gateways? I'm having terrible luck with the stability of KA9Q, Jnos etc. Did you compile your own? Do you have a huge patch file you keep around to apply to new versions of NOS? I don't care what flavour you're using; if it's stable I wan't to try what you're using. I need a *stable* tcp/ip router and gateway (ip over ip encap) for ethernet to 56kbps and 1200bps packet. Just tonight I was using rcp to copy 15 megs of a directory tree over the 56kbps link; but then I opened an ftp connection to a Sun; when I closed the ftp connection, the JNOS router bit the dust (right in the middle of the rcp! arg!). Rhetorical question: why can Suns, SGIs, Linux boxes etc. run for *months* doing routing (and a million other things), and NOS up times are measured in days at best? thanks --------------------------------------------------------------------------- BogoMIPS Research Labs -- bogosity research & simulation -- VE7JPM -- jmorriso@bogomips.ee.ubc.ca ve7jpm@ve7jpm.ampr.org jmorriso@ve7ubc.ampr.org --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 15:33:57 -0500 (CDT) From: ssampson@sabea-oc.af.mil (Steve Sampson) Subject: How to Join or Leave To: tcp-group@ucsd.edu One of the most irritating problems of a listserver is that people don't remember how they got in, or the instructions for getting out. For this particular group, you would probably check the masthead of the tcp-group digest. Of course that won't help, because the masthead is wrong - always has been. The simple fact is that most listservers use the user name of listserv Those that don't are non-standard, and should probably be avoided if you have a poor memory. The tcp-group is archived on the ucsd.edu machine. So the full address is listserv@ucsd.edu Now here's the fun part. Just send the word help In the message. Don't include your damned 12 line signature block with stupid graphics either. If a member see's that another member is having trouple they can also unsubscribe them. delete-all joe@blow.edu -- Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 20:21:22 -0700 From: brian@nothing.ucsd.edu (Brian Kantor) Subject: How to Join or Leave To: tcp-group@ucsd.edu, ssampson@sabea-oc.af.mil In article <9409222033.AA08892@sabea-oc.af.mil> you write: >particular group, you would probably check the masthead of the tcp-group >digest. Of course that won't help, because the masthead is wrong - always >has been. Steve is so sure of himself. Unfortunately, he's wrong. The masthead of the tcp-digest clearly states to send mail to tcp-group-request@ucsd.edu, and by golly, that works for me! But then, Steve knows better than I do. Hey, I just wrote the software, the masthead, and run the system. So do it his way. Or as the instructions say. Your choice. Gosh, I wish >I< were young enough to know everything. Hubris, I think they call it. - Brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 04:32:32 -0500 (CDT) From: ssampson@sabea-oc.af.mil (Steve Sampson) Subject: Hubris To: tcp-group@ucsd.edu > Hubris Isn't that what the fags at ucsd smear their butt with? Well you should pat yourself on the back on the fine and wonderful list server you "wrote". I suspect it's probably the only thing you ever finished... -- Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 13:47:00 edt From: Adminstrator Subject: Mail failure To: dayhub!3445a!ucsd.edu!TCP-Group@prowler.daytonoh.NCR.COM User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: GPPGDAYTON/GPPGPOST/lshannon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Return-Path: Received: from prowler.daytonoh.ncr.com by gppgpost.daytonoh.ncr.com id <2E81C331@gppgpost.daytonoh.ncr.com>; Thu, 22 Sep 94 13:47:29 edt Received: by prowler.daytonoh.ncr.com; 22 Sep 94 13:30:34 EDT Received: by dayhub.DaytonOH.NCR.COM; 22 Sep 94 13:30:23 EDT Received: by 3445a.DaytonOH.NCR.COM; 22 Sep 94 13:30:46 EDT id AA780255289 Thu, 22 Sep 94 13:34:49 EST Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 13:34:49 EST From: TCP-Group@ucsd.edu Message-Id: <9408227802.AA780255289@WPDSMTP.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> To: tcp-group-digest@ucsd.edu Subject: TCP-Group Digest V94 #209 Received: by ccmail from 3445a.DaytonOH.NCR.COM >From ncrhub1!ucsd.edu!owner-tcp-digest@dayhub.DaytonOH.NCR.COM X-Envelope-From: ncrhub1!ucsd.edu!owner-tcp-digest@dayhub.DaytonOH.NCR.COM Received: by 3445a.DaytonOH.NCR.COM; 22 Sep 94 13:27:45 EDT Received: by dayhub.DaytonOH.NCR.COM; 22 Sep 94 13:27:01 EDT Received: from ncrgw1 by ncrhub1.NCR.COM id as24192; 22 Sep 94 12:23 EDT Received: by ncrgw1.NCR.COM; 22 Sep 94 10:42:15 EDT sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 22 Sep 1994 04:30:09 -0700 for tcp-digest-list Received: by ucsd.edu; id EAA26135 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 22 Sep 1994 04:30:07 -0700 for tcp-group-ddist Message-Id: <199409221130.EAA26135@ucsd.edu> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 04:30:06 PDT From: Advanced Amateur Radio Networking Group Errors-To: TCP-Group-Errors@UCSD.EDU Reply-To: TCP-Group@ucsd.edu Precedence: Bulk Subject: TCP-Group Digest V94 #209 To: tcp-group-digest@ucsd.edu TCP-Group Digest Thu, 22 Sep 94 Volume 94 : Issue 209 Today's Topics: Mail failure UNSCRIBE wn940921 memory and things Send Replies or notes for publication to: . Subscription requests to . Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu. Archives of past issues of the TCP-Group Digest are available (by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives". We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Sep 94 13:34:00 edt From: Adminstrator Subject: Mail failure To: dayhub!3445a!ucsd.edu!TCP-Group@prowler.daytonoh.NCR.COM User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: GPPGDAYTON/GPPGPOST/lshannon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Return-Path: Received: from prowler.daytonoh.ncr.com by gppgpost.daytonoh.ncr.com id <2E806E8E@gppgpost.daytonoh.ncr.com>; Wed, 21 Sep 94 13:34:06 edt Received: by prowler.daytonoh.ncr.com; 21 Sep 94 13:30:09 EDT Received: by dayhub.DaytonOH.NCR.COM; 21 Sep 94 13:29:48 EDT Received: by 3445a.DaytonOH.NCR.COM; 21 Sep 94 13:26:24 EDT id AA780168631 Wed, 21 Sep 94 13:30:31 EST Date: Wed, 21 Sep 94 13:30:31 EST From: TCP-Group@ucsd.edu Message-Id: <9408217801.AA780168631@WPDSMTP.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> To: tcp-group-digest@ucsd.edu Subject: TCP-Group Digest V94 #208 Large message has been converted into an attachment. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 21:11:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Admin Subject: UNSCRIBE To: uunet!aquin!men2a!uunet.uu.net!ucsd!tcp-group UNSCRIBE ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Sep 94 14:54:51 EST From: BARRY TITMARSH Subject: wn940921 memory and things To: TCP-GROUP , wnos-group Just to confirm unless informed otherwise. the memory problem on this version of wnos is cleared. and the latest uploaded .exe's do contain netrom. however I compiled both in 286 mode on the compiler. Barry. ------------------------------ End of TCP-Group Digest V94 #209 ****************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 07:27:00 -0000 From: mikebw@bilow.bilow.uu.ids.net (Mike Bilow) Subject: TCP retry time problem? To: nos-bbs@hydra.carleton.ca [Replying originally to a post addressed to the nos-bbs@hydra.carleton.ca list] On 94 Sep 20 at 10:52, Dr. Gareth D. Blower wrote: DGDB> rto = backoff(tcb) * (4 * tcb->mdev + tcb->srtt); DGDB> Where does that factor of 4 get plucked from? It means DGDB> that when we calculate the retry time, we give the mean DGDB> deviation of the RTT 4 times the weight of the RTT itself. * * * DGDB> If we do a PING to a particular station, we will see DGDB> quite a small mean deviation, but that's because we send DGDB> one packet at time. When we are doing an FTP, we may send, DGDB> all in one go, any number of packets, depending on the DGDB> negotiated window size. If we send one packet, and then DGDB> two contiguous packets, and then three contiguous packets, DGDB> the RTT will vary. For one packet, it will be DGDB> approximately RTT. If two packets are sent contiguously, DGDB> the RTT for the first packet will be approximately 1.5 DGDB> RTT. If three packets are sent contiguously, the RTT for DGDB> the first packet will be approximately 2 RTT What you say has quite a lot of validity, but I think the reasoning was most likely to concoct a quick and dirty mechanism to prevent the retry timer from expiring on one packet while others are still being sent. This is an inherent problem on a half-duplex channel, since the RTT can only be measured on a packet-by-packet basis. It might be reasonable to extend Karn's Algorithm to say that we will only use an RTT measurement taken from an acknowledgement of the last transmitted frame. If we did this, then we would never get any RTT measurements unless we drop into stop-and-wait mode somehow, either through the use of the congestion window or some other cause. You might ask Phil Karn about this directly, although I believe that he has traditionally expressed objection to any linear backoff implementation as opposed to exponential backoff. -- Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 11:19:52 utc From: iw1cfl@ik1qld-10.ampr.org Subject: wn940921 : where can I find it? To: tcp-group@ucsd.edu Hello all, where can I find wn940921 sources other than ucsd.edu? The problemi is that here the connectionf with ftp.ucsd.edu is slow, so if I can connect another host maybe i can download it easily. Best 73 Mike ------------------------------ End of TCP-Group Digest V94 #210 ****************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 13:22:24 -0600 (MDT) From: Klarsen Subject: Reading and how to stop To: TCP digest I was amuased at myself. I read Steve's thing about getting information on this server and said yes the masthead has been wrong for years! Then I saw Brian's note and re-looked at the masthead. There it IS! In clear easy to read form, how to send this message and how to send things to the server. I tried it and it works. But I think one added thing might help end so many messages to "cancel my subscription". As Steve said you can send a 1 liner one word that will get you lots of information. Just use help. But to get this across might be hard. The person wanting help needs to know that the 'help' must be in the message, not the title and with some servers it needs to not be the first line. I wonder how hard it would be to have the server answer a address like help@ucsd.edu or help_request@ucsd.edu send the help file? Then you could put that in the masthead as " for help use help@ucsd.edu" and the user winds up with your excellent help file. Just another hair-brain idea... -karl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 18:21:00 PDT From: "Jeffrey D. Angus" Subject: TCP-Group Digest V94 #210 To: TCP-Group@UCSD.EDU On Fri, 23 Sep 94 04:30:03 PDT, "Advanced Amateur Radio Networking Group" wrote: > Hubris > > Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 04:32:32 -0500 (CDT) > From: ssampson@sabea-oc.af.mil (Steve Sampson) > Subject: Hubris > To: tcp-group@ucsd.edu > > > Hubris > [ rest deleted.... ] Congratulations Steve. I've managed to maintain the title of net.asshole for quite sometime, but this time you've beat me fair and square. I humbly surrender my title. 73 es GE from the vanquished -- Amateur: WA6FWI@WA6FWI.#SOCA.CA.USA.NOAM | "You have a flair for adding Internet: jangus@skyld.grendel.com | a fanciful dimension to any US Mail: PO Box 4425 Carson, CA 90749 | story." Phone: 1 (310) 324-6080 | Peking Noodle Co. Hate "Green Card Lottery"? Want to help curb ignorant crossposting on Usenet? E-mail ckeroack@hamp.hampshire.edu for more information, or read news.groups. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 09:50:22 MDT From: nq0i@dablik.radiophysics.com Subject: Virtual machines To: tcp-group@ucsd.edu Working on the assumption that there are no stupid questions, I proceed with the following: I think that most of us agree that a good configuration for radio access is to have a DOS machine running NOS actually attached to the rig, acting as an IP switch to a box running *NIX or Windows or what-have-you on which the applications run. Now, suppose that this second machine is running Windows. Is there some way in which the DOS switch running NOS cannot be replaced by a virtual DOS machine running NOS within the Windows session? Obviously (I think) if one has enough COM ports, one could route the IP from a Windows application attached to (say) Winsock out one port, into another post to which is attached a Windows DOS box running NOS, which can then ship the final radio-ready IP out a third port. But is there not some way to get rid of those first two ports through some virtualising mechanism so that the IP from Winsock (or whatever) goes into the NOS session without physically having to traverse wires? I apologise if this makes the cognoscenti shake their heads in wonderment at my simplicity.... Doc ------------------------------------------------------- Doc Evans NQ0I / G4AMJ : devans@orion.colorado.edu al019@freenet.hsc.colorado.edu ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 17:41:59 +0200 (BST) From: iialan@iifeak.swan.ac.uk (Alan Cox) Subject: Virtual machines To: al019@freenet.hsc.colorado.edu > I think that most of us agree that a good configuration for radio > access is to have a DOS machine running NOS actually attached to the > rig, acting as an IP switch to a box running *NIX or Windows or > what-have-you on which the applications run. Running JNOS under Linux is more than as good. Once the AX.25 for Linux and *BSD is finished and done the DOS boxes can go into the bits pile > IP from a Windows application attached to (say) Winsock out one > port, into another post to which is attached a Windows DOS box running > NOS, which can then ship the final radio-ready IP out a third port. > But is there not some way to get rid of those first two ports through > some virtualising mechanism so that the IP from Winsock (or whatever) > goes into the NOS session without physically having to traverse In theory it is doable (I've seen that kind of hackery work) but the right way of doing it is to get a winsock or DOS tcp stack that can be taught do to IP over AX.25 UI frames (which isn't a complex protocol problem). Hacking WATTCP to do this took me an afternoon but then I found wattcp's tcp timers were just far too simple to cope with the amateur radio network. Alan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Sep 94 00:28:35 UTC From: ve3dte@ve3dte.ampr.org Subject: Virtual machines To: al019@freenet.hsc.colorado.edu If you want to run Winsock apps over radio, and you don't need multiple radio ports, I've found that K8LT's KISS packet driver works quite well with Trumpet Winsock. The timers are acceptable, with an initial RTT of 5 seconds and exponential backoff. The DNS code is a bit of a problem, since it re-tries domain lookups at fixed 5 second intervals -- so it's best to have a DNS close by :-) It even works fairly well at 1200bps. This approach should also work with the Ottawa PI card, since there is a packet driver for it in the Crynwr collection. The KISS driver is available at ftp.ucsd.edu, in /hamradio/packet /tcpip/incoming/ethrax25.zip Source is included. 73, Mark. ve3dte@ve3dte.ampr.org markfrey@hookup.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 14:34:12 EST From: BARRY TITMARSH Subject: what is MAC To: TCP-GROUP Hi all. I have a simple Question, What is MAC I know its hardware address remap to Ip address. But What does M.A C mean Thanks. Barry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 10:27:47 From: kz1f@RELAY.HDN.LEGENT.COM Subject: what is MAC To: "BARRY TITMARSH" , tcp-group@ucsd.edu Media Access Control (its an NDIS term) NDIS has 3 components, 1) MAC - this is the hardware drivers, written to a common interface spec (to interface with protocol stack). 2) Protocol stack, this is the logic of whats going on, irrespective of hardware. 3) Protocol Manager, this piece couples a protocol stack with whatever MAC(s) are available. This is generally done thru a "bind" process. You may want to get ahold of the NDIS 3.0 spec from either 3com or uSoft. -Walt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 10:56 EDT From: nelson@crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) Subject: what is MAC To: BTITMARS%ESOC.BITNET@vm.gmd.de Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 14:34:12 EST From: BARRY TITMARSH Hi all. I have a simple Question, What is MAC I know its hardware address remap to Ip address. But What does M.A C mean Media Access Controller. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 12:39:26 -0400 From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: what is MAC To: kz1f@RELAY.HDN.LEGENT.COM > Media Access Control (its an NDIS term) Uh, I'm pretty sure that MAC predates NDIS by quite a bit. I believe the term was probably first used in the IEEE 802 specs; I just checked my DEC/Intel/Xerox Ethernet Version 1.0 spec (Sept 30, 1980), and they don't actually use that term. I louie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 17:04:32 +0000 (GMT) From: Paul L Taylor Subject: what is MAC To: TCP-GROUP@UCSD.EDU Hello Barry, Its Medium Access Control, I think its reasonably self-explanatory but it is covered well in the usual reference material Like Tanenbaum's Computer Networks,or Black's various tomes,or even IEEE 802 standards.But here is a little discourse on MAC :-) In the IEEE 802 committee's reference tomes they split the data link layer (OSI-RM ) into 2 sub-layers the Medium Access Control and the Logical Link Control. Where for instance 802.3 (ethernet thick or thin) defines CSMA/CD Carrier Sense Multiple Access/Collision Detect method of MAC. The token bus method of MAC is the 802.4 standard,and the token ring method is 802.5 standard. 802.2 is the Logical Link Control standard. MAC itself is split into 6 sub-layers: Transmit Data Encapsulation, Transmit Media Access Management,Receive Data Decapsulation,Receive Media Access Management,Data Encoding or Decoding and Channel Access. Further study of the above references or any good Data Networking reference should help you further. 73 Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Telephone : +44 1344 855876 (1000-1900 GMT), +44 1494 526538 (2030-0000) Fax : +44 1344 855878 Full Name : Paul L Taylor Snail Mail: ATD Systems Analyst/Designer,The Met Office,Experimental Site, Beaufort Park,Easthamsted,Wokingham,Berks..RG11 3DN,UK InterNet : ptaylor@EMAIL.meto.govt.uk (please use THIS address NOT any other internally appended address) JaNet : ptaylor@uk.govt.met-office.email AmprNet : g1plt@g1plt.ampr.org UK AmprNet Co-ordinator. NTSbbs : G1PLT@GB7MHD.#22.GBR.EU ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 10:16:37 -0500 From: tom@ping.ping.com (Tom Robertson) To: TCP-GROUP@UCSD.EDU unsubscribe ------------------------------ End of TCP-Group Digest V94 #211 ******************************